According to the complaint, proof of German suffering is had in German win rates--which are often lower than their Allied peers WRs. That's your personal preference. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends Last time I played my king tiger I shot the T34s barrel as that was the only spot I knew I could reliably disarm him, then he just took out my barrel with .50s and I got killed by one of his teammates. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. The Germany newbies will complain that their chosen tank sucks and the Germany veterans are in their meta premiums taking out entire enemy teams. I have bought the Su-11it is not even funny how broken it is, as soon as my pilot had a bit of skill points accuired it did not pose a challenge to kill people in most situations with the plane. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. However, due to WT map design, with most maps being rather small and generally favouring brawling, this advantage is often countered by the allies more versatile vehicles. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made during the cold war and after) in battles? That is basically telling your enemy "I am here" and to commit assisted suicide. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Vehicles, Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. If you pen hull, his gun is still operational and he just shoots you. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. The issue is that T__ are better than every heavy in game all the way up until the IS-3, and their BR should reflect that. @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. Allied CAS i superior. Still a lot more intuitive. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. If an M18 is careening down a street and a Panther materializes at the end of it and takes a shotit's not going to be a good day for the M18. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. Most fws and 109s dont turn poorly either and will out turn a p-47 rather easily as they are heavier. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. Not to mention Algy's unclean, raw and charismatic voice. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Same procedure as with Panthers. there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. Has 3 crew and carousel, so it doesn't fit survivability meta and it's armor can be penned by 9.0 premiums. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. It is however annoying still though. Welcome to r/Warthunder. LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. Does Germany suffer and from what? But there almost no such maps in the game. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. With things as they are with just a little more zeal in pursuing the objectives, Germany would do just fine. Want Germany to be more competitive at 5.3-6.7? In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. Done. FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. Isn't it also truethat many of the people who play the american tree only play the US tree? He will retreat and find a way around you. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. Same procedure as with Panthers. yes in the real world and on paper, but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. The Tiger IIs' cannons do not bounce like M18s on trampolines, no matter how much people pretend that they do. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. Also since ground ai. Apcr is often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why shouldn't it be counted for the panther a. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. Also the air tech tree actually is borderline OP too. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored. By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. While true a slower tank doesn'tneed totravel very far to find a position that overlooks the positions one wouldplan on exploiting so by the time the fast tanks shows up the slow tankis waiting in its position ready to fire as the fast tank usually has to travel across half the map and the slow tank only has to travel a quarter of the map or less to counter. The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. Germany is being denied their AA roof mounted guns because "They would make no difference". Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. While it is true that many people, with all sorts of involvement in other trees, play Germany it is also true that many of the people who play the German tree only play the German tech tree. The m41 is a welcomed addition. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. Sometimes it works. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. Its an endless cycle so you better get used to it. Click here to jump to that post. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. This line comes up in many venues and references many things--but what does it mean? Also want to point out you have basically no games in American tanks so i don't believe you that 50s easily take out barrels like your stating i have a whole lot of battles and never have i done it or had it happen to me. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. I agree though that the lines should be redone, but not only for Germany but for all the nations. And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. The merits of ground vehicles rely on the triad--armor, firepower and mobility. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . Come on, seriously? I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. I think that is what contributes in combination with what you mentioned for the low WR of Germans at the 5.7-6.7 BR range. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. Noone does the same with panthers. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? 2. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. Actually you describe yourself what the effect of better mobility is at the end of your post. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. What do you expect? He was 60 years old. Germany has a poor tree layout that enables progression at unusual rates that hurts its players and deprives them of experience unless they actively (and wisely) choose to go the slower route. If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. Not meta. If you liked it, feel free to sub. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0.
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