That said, the Citabria is a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training. At these airframe weights, 20hp buys a good bit of forgiveness. Cheetahs are around 850lbs. I dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic and had a conventional gear.. front so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-150, https://executiveflyers.com/cessna-150-vs-172/, https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/cessna-150/, https://singleenginepilot.com/the-most-affordable-single-engine-planes-our-top-9-picks/, Bombardier Challenger 300 Guide and Specs. That phrase sort of confuses me. . Otherwise I can take a photo of the for sale sign at the airport sometime. , The main parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I think theyre based in Houston, he said. ). Otherwise, owners report that the AA-5 family is largely free of issues, and they enjoy great support and parts availability from companies such as Excel-Air Services in Indiana and Fletchair in Texas. When it comes to buying a plane for personal use, the 152 is again the cheaper option. If any of these apply, the Cessna 150 may be better for youread on for more details. You can pay a whole lot less for a Traveler compared to a Tiger, or get a whole lot nicer Traveler for the same money. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg s, The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. And what was involved in getting it approved? And, if you are doing aerobatics, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost. Answer: Some tall people manage fine, but it must be said that the Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people. They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. This effectively provides Tiger speed and climb performance at the price closer to that of a Cheetah. If you currently have an account on Pilots Place, your Tiger owner here. It all comes down to what your mission is. I did. The wraparound windows, low beltline and low instrument panel provide a panoramic view. $19.99 . Major overhauls were cheap. AA-5 prices can vary widely, but when we exclude the most extreme examples in a recent sampling of listings, the majority fall in the $30,000 to $60,000 range. Just went with a friend to check one out. If it is a new paint job people have got stripper in the joints remember this plane is glued together and stripper in the glue is bad, make sure this did not happen. Answer: You wont need a lot of extra tuition, but a few hours with an instructor would really be a good idea. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. It all comes down to what your mission is. It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. Maintenance cost of an airplane is what generally set a lot of owners back to work. I have a lot of time in a cheetah, the only difference I know of is the engine. your fairchild is also glued together and older than that. If you touch it, its going to move an aileron or elevator, Mike said. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. The Citabria breed has an AD requiring a one-time inspection of the wooden spar where they have to check it for cracks. He can be found on Instagram as @cessnateur. The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. Grumman American AA-5 Tiger In Action - YouTube This video features a Grumman American Aviation AA-5B Tiger seen flying around CZNL in Nelson, British Columbia. Among the most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups. Attention Cessna 172 Club Members! The hierarchy of personal general aviation aircraft types has, over the years, come to be defined by certain mainstays. 2. While the difference between the two is by no means huge, the 152 is the more economical option. Come join us! In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platform. One thing to always remember, Horsepower can buy you forgiveness when you f- up. It was largely a matter of economics, Greg said. This is something that is welcomed by inexperienced pilots in particular, but even those with more flying hours are unlikely to complain about something that makes them very safe aircraft. Fuse to Circuit Breakers - Grumman Style: Replacing your old fuse holders with Klixon 7277-2 series circuit breakers. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. Through various ownership changes, such as Bellanca and now American Champion Aircraft Corporation, the simple, well-liked design has continued on with additional variations being produced such as the Decathlon and Scout. Mojogrip online https://mojogrip.net Add me on Instagram https://goo.gl/U7Fcca Add me on Facebook https://goo.gl/rbjE6N Back with the second half of Krishs interview. I don't think you'll find any Cheetahs which weigh in at only 1314 lb empty -- 1400 is more typical. First flown in 1955, more 172s have been built than any other aircraft. Have you forgotten your login information? Moving to the Grumman Tiger meant they could have a four-place aircraft better suited for cross-country travel and still have a plane that was responsive. Tiger owner here. The plane was always in a hangar probably a major factor.. Apologies for the shakiness.Aircraft: Grumman AA-5B Tiger, Cessna 172R Skyhawk \u0026 Eurocopter AS355 TwinStarTime of Day: 2:53 PMDate: November 2nd, 2022 And that was the main consideration.. Cessna Cessna 172 Technical Specifications Exterior Exterior Height: 8 ft 8 in Wing Span: 35 ft 8 in Length: 26 ft 9 in Interior Cabin Volume: 55 cu ft Internal Baggage: 30 cu ft Occupancy Crew: 1 Passengers: 3 Operating Weights Max T/O Weight: 2400 Lb Max Landing Weight: 2400 Lb Operating Weight: 1666 Lb Empty Weight: 1454 Lb The 172 is basically the big sister to the 152-it's a nearly identical airframe, just larger in every dimension to hold four people. Citabria burned about 5 to 6 gph, making it economical to operate. Hi, Eddie, I'm at KHWO, too! It was this way even before I did the upgrades. It's kinda underpowered for what we were doing with it, luckily no one was heavy and the distances weren't far. Krish discussed having to change some avionics, propeller, engine cowling, and after 300 hours of flying him and his partners also had to overhaul the 180hp engine, which cost a whopping $28,000. ", Surprisingly, the Citabria was used for cross-country trips more often than you would think, but only if arrival time requirements werent challenging, Greg said. With full fuel, the payload is about 500 pounds or so plenty if its two people flying with luggage. Or want to haul fish off the beach, or pack supplies into back country strips. The later versions produced in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. 180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. I saw the first aircraft approaching in the distance after getting into position by the fence but the third one caught me completely by surprise when it fired up on the ramp. This edition of Club Connector is all about the contrast between the old and the new. Find more About Us here! What do I need to do? The Citabria breed has an AD requiring a one-time inspection of the wooden spar where they have to check it for cracks. Still not fast enough to be a real cross country plane, imho. Mojogrip online https://mojogrip.net Add me on Instagram https://goo.gl/U7Fcca Add me on Facebook https://goo.gl/rbjE6N Back with the second half of Krish's . But in the mid-90s, they decided to make a change[see this months Club Spotlight]. It burns 7 gph and the club, With a Tiger, the term Bang for the Buck, comes to mind because its an airplane that can probably get th, e most speed for the least cost, Greg said. According to Greg, the 115-hpCitabria burned about 5 to 6 gph, making it economical to operate. Santa Rosita State Park, under the big 'W', www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48872, http://www.loprestiaviation.com/#!lopresti-tiger-cowl/ci0v, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. If your club wants to offer something different yet cost effective, a Citabria can help attract members who want to earn a tailwheel endorsement or do some aerobatic flying. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. After 5 years I wonder if the deal was done. There is a beautiful Grumman at my airport for sale. Help me understand the wing structure. Ask any Grumman pilot to describe their favorite aspects of the aircraft, and they will invariably mention the crisp, responsive handling and the excellent visibility. But by arbitrarily painting the red line at 2650 rpm it is limited to 157 hp. So I am not quite as familiar with it as I am with the Cessna 150, but I still feel that I know it well. CTAF audio is included. You can literally fly with your pinkies.. A 1975 Grumman AA-5B Tiger (N74429) \u0026 a 1997 Cessna 172R Skyhawk landing on Runway 10 at Princeton Airport (39N) in New Jersey followed by a 1982 Eurocopter AS366 TwinStar (N355MT) taking off shortly upon my arrival on the field. It's faster than a 172 and carries about the same load (typically about 800-850 lb useful), but is not as tolerant of grass or extremely short runways. The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still being produced. 157 hp is less than 5% more than the original 150 hp, and 5% is the fudge factor the FAA allows to avoid recertification. same friendly, informative place for all things Cessna 172, now with a larger The club usesAvemcoand pays $6,000 a year, but Greg noted that Florida is an expensivestate in whichto insure an aircraft because of hurricanes and the fact the state is highly litigious. Tiger "Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. Grumman Tiger over taking Cessna 150 at + 50 kts. I have a bunch of time in the Cheetah and a friend has a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160hp STC - great little planes. Approachable Aircraft: Grumman AA-5 Series. And, if you are doing aerobatics, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost. The Cessna 150 is a two-seater aircraft, whereas the Cessna 172 is a lot larger than the Cessna 150, having four seats. If you have an autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said. So if you plan to take the family on holiday or something similar, the Cessna 172 is probably what you will need. It seems unique. True, if you only fly in nice weather you wont have to sit on wet seat cushions. If not, then which is best? Copyright 2023 Flying Media. Being based in Florida,the Flying Educators havemany destinations within a 500-mile radius, including the Bahamas,andmembers wanted an aircraft more suited to that mission. I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. Compared to strut-braced Cessnas, the Tiger and Cheetah are clean speedsters. All was in order etc, just don't know much about the plane. Please head over to our new home at the Pilots Place Forum. If you are looking for a good all-round airplane thats easy to fly, can carry passengers, and will do most of the things any private pilot wants, then the Cessna 172 should be perfect for you. Its nimble in the air, seats four, and has a good cruising speed with minimal fuel burn. The Tiger I fly is 900lbs. Grumman Tiger. The nosewheel looks flimsy but I spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are quite sturdy. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011. Predictably, more-powerful, lower-time engines and modernized avionics are the primary drivers behind higher prices. Jason McDowell is a private pilot and Cessna 170 owner based in Madison, Wisconsin. If it is a new paint job people have got stripper in the joints remember this plane is glued together and stripper in the glue is bad, make sure this did not happen. But being a little more impartial, I would have to choose the Cessna 172, in particular the more recent models. The Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (KFXE). login you will see the new forum. The hull is insured at $65,000 with $1 million liability. It introduced an enlarged version of the AA-1, equipped it with a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler. Join Us | Member Benefits |News| Events |Contact Us. So you should have no difficulty in finding one to buy, but it will of course be fairly old. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Or you might prefer the Grumman AA5B, or perhaps the Diamond DV20/DA20 Katana, Ercoupe 415-C, or Diamond DA40 Star, all of which are said to be safe and easy to fly. So please dont just leap into a Cessna 172 with no experience and expect it to be just like the Cessna 150; it is different. Its very responsive. It burns 7 gph and the clubcharges $86 an hour. Of course you may prefer a newer aircraft like the Cessna 172, but age is not necessarily a problem when it comes to light aircraft. The AA-5 family is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues. Die Grumman-Tiger-Familie im Steckbrief AG-5B haben eine praktische, auf beiden Seiten aufklappbare Cowling und ein verbessertes Heizungs- und Lftungssystem. One letter called the new Cessna 172 "the rough technological and stylisticequivalent of a 1966 Chevy Novaat the price of two Mercedes." Another called the announced $124,500 base price of the new Skyhawk"incredible" and suggested that $75,000 or $80,000 would be appropriate. It is such an OWT there's even a guy who makes satirical videos about it. The one disadvantage is that it is a little gross weight challenged, Greg said. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. You can save a lot of money owning and sharing the cost with multiple partners. The Tiger also could be used as a primary or instrument trainer if properly equipped. But the Cessna 150 is not unsafe by any means. The bonded aluminum construction eliminates the need for rivets, so even sitting on the ground it looks sleek. The main differences between the Piper Archer and Cessna 172 are: The Piper Archer has only one door on the right-hand side for access, whereas the Cessna 172 has two doors on each side of the aircraft. Does he have it on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane etc. AA-5B Tiger. It is larger, safer, and allows you to travel further and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage. ). Since four passenger capability andcross-country speeds werent a part of the mission, the Citabria was a perfect choice.. With a, fixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. That was its strong suit.. Load carrying capability. Greg noted that on a namedpolicyyoull pay a premium based on your least experienced pilot. News From HQ: Old, New, and You. However, the fun-factor overrode practicality from time to time.. They charge $90 an hour wet. Theyre fast little airplanes.. One maintainer reports that the majority of incidents he sees are a result of runway overruns that began with excessive speed on final approach. I "think" you can fly around with the canopy open.is that correct? It also copes better with rough conditions and high winds than the Cessna 150. Small ruder for X wind landing, more than one landed on nose wheel and met their demise not that other aircraft don't. . Topping the range is the AA-5B Tiger, which entered production as a 1975 model and differed from the Cheetah primarily by being equipped with the more powerful 180 hp Lycoming O-360. This quote has been neglected and underrated for years now . Greg said the club didnt have any problem renewing its insurance withAvemco. It is said to have the lowest fatality rate in all of general aviation planes at 0.56 per 100,000 flying hours. Ill look around later for it. You all are so wrong. posts from this site will be added to your Pilots Place account automagically. It was a very inexpensive airplane. Cessna 172. This appealing blend can be found elsewhere, but few options supplement it with the robust network of parts, service and support enjoyed by Grumman owners. Grumman produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and then American General produced the AG5B Tiger from 1991 through 1993. It also has a faster speed and a better range. Grumman-American, on the other hand, never certified the AA-5x for 160 hp. It also has a faster speed and a better range. Aircraft Spotlight: Comparing the Citabria and the Grumman Tiger, FAA publishes 'Aviation Weather Handbook'. It will also carry more weight, as mentioned above. ). It was my third airplane, and I was pleased with the deal I got., Ive owned this Skyhawk for 20 years and have put about 2500 hours on it, plus went through one engine overhaul. They are faster, handle more crisply, have a nice sliding canopy, and are a bit more unusual than offerings from other aircraft in their class from Cessna, Piper and Beech . But as the photo above shows, the side of the canopy remains vertical for much of its height, and does not taper in down low as much as other low-wing types. I'd take one over a 172 in a heartbeat. Nope. Finding a good mechanic that has tube and fabric experience and expertise is important, and it could be a little more challenging to find than someone used to working on 172s or Cherokees. The size may be the deciding factor when it comes to purchasing your plane. They're decent airplanes overall. Aerodynamischer Feinschliff verbesserte die Reisegeschwindigkeit von 139 auf 143 Knoten. Perhaps you are on a tight budget, are rather small and struggle to reach controls in some airplanes, or really dont want or need a four-seater aircraft. https://thepilotsplace.com/forum/login. All spars are life-limited to 12,000 to 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook history. send a link to set up your password on the Pilots Place site, and when you This is at least the third Tiger thread in two days. AboutPressCopyrightContact. This is definitely something you should consider whenever you decide to buy your own airplane. Despite not currently being in production, the product support through FletchAir and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular. Enjoy!Aircraft: N474EPC172ROutro Song:Gold Skies - Liam Aidan It continued to look good until it was sold. I have watched a lot of Nat Geo, Wild Kingdom, etc. The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. I only have time in the AA1X series, the baby brother of the tiger, the canopy design I think is one of the better ones in GA, no issues, the free castor nose wheel was great for ground handling, nice shock absorbing and strong fiberglass mains, good fuel tank system, etc. 2023 The Grumman Owners and Pilots Association. The Tiger has a published book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of 130 to 138 knots. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. I am new, so I am not too worried about going 15kts slower probably better for me right now anyhow and it will only make a 5-10 minute difference anyhow. Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. Greg pointed out thefirst Tiger policy premium was $2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria. Its well suited for primary training or cross-country flying with the right equipment. Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed. Very rugged, durable and dependable. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by WVTexan, Nov 21, 2013. So this might well decide things for you. Nicest one Ive ever seen. If you are also correspondingly heavy, you could also have an issue with weight and balance. It holds 52 gallons and has a range of about 700 miles. , which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said. For not much more budget, the Tiger seems to work better on paper. Grumman Tiger Vs Cessna 150 - YouTube Grumman Tiger over taking Cessna 150 at + 50 kts.
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