Hence it is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran also carried the title Sultan. Yes, it was and the series shouldve put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her behaviour. Hurrem and Mahidevran really did fight, but She was the chief consort of Suleiman before the appearance of Hrrem Sultan. 2003:6A:6851:3301:2906:2827:AE05:4542 (talk) 03:31, 26 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], All the references can be found here . Depriving someone of their last name or title for your own satisfaction is NOT just, it's highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. I think she was chief consort but later lost her position though she remained first wife. Among her first foundations were a mosque, two Quranic schools (madrassa), a fountain, and a women's hospital near the women's slave market (Avret Pazary) in Istanbul (Haseki Sultan Complex). The source is "BBC your paintings". She was the grandmother of Murad III. This did not, however, prevent Hurrem from wielding powerful political influence. If you are not convinced we can try to get this on reliable sources noticeboard. My most sincere friend, my confidant, my very existence, my Sultan, my one and only love. Instead, he attended it. hurrem. I shall wait for your response until few days then revert your changes, if you are unable to prove that this "Abdullah" was indeed a slave and not a free person, in which case, M would have been a "gifted wife" (married to S not legally but rather tough Nikah 'urfi). Roxelana (Ukrainian: , romanized:Roksolana; lit. In one of her letters, she wrote: Under his pen name, Muhibbi, Sultan Suleiman composed this poem for Hurrem Sultan: "Throne of my lonely niche, my wealth, my love, my moonlight. About the recently revived edit war on the Origins of Mahidevran, I would like to clear that I am not a descendant of Mahidevran, I just came across the Genealogy document and thought it was rather convincing one. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 01:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I beg to differ, in many books (arts, literature whatever you may call) she has been known as Sultana. Your stubbornness of using only Peirce's provided information while neglecting other possible sources shows your own prejudice, not anyone else's. WebAnd Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of After her brother Sari Selim's Mahidevran was his most trustable advisor as well as chief of his harem. Like mentioned before, popular culture adopts from what has happened in the past. We are not going to talk about the conspiracy theory you was trying to drag me into "Hurrem planning the execution of Ibrahim" it is so off base and irrelevant. Never before had a former slave been elevated to the status of the sultan's lawful spouse, a development which astonished observers in the palace and in the city. And there is lots of lots of doubts about the title of this woman. Leslie P. Peirce has written that it may have been either Anastasia, or Aleksandra Lisowska. She is known to be a legal wife before Hurrem Sultan, but not so popular since Hurrem Sultan was the first "slave" to become a legal wife, hence, only Hurrem's being a legal wife is so popular. At 5 years, survival was 45% (95% CI, 43% to 49%), and 43% of the deaths were noncardiovascular. The death of television icon Betty White received a lot of attention in popular culture. 8:02Am Jun 6, 2017 morning to take a look at it dazzling performances that the Inbetweener on the film, the voice behind the character Wallace who h Pathetic joke!! Phone: She was the first imperial consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. Best:) - Worldandhistory (talk) 15:18, 30 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Mahidevran Sultan in Trke Bilgi = tr:Meahidevran Sultan in Turkish Wikipedia. According to a source he was executed that very year on charges of planning to dethrone his father; his guilt for the treason of which he was accused remains neither proven nor disproven. , A skilled commander of Suleiman's army, Ibrahim eventually fell from grace after an imprudence committed during a campaign against the Persian Safavid empire during the OttomanSafavid War (153255), when he awarded himself a title including the word "Sultan". Mustafa attended to his father during the Persian war, despite his mothers warnings. According to late 16th-century and early 17th-century sources, such as the Polish poet Samuel Twardowski (died 1661), who researched the subject in Turkey, Hurrem was seemingly born to a man surnamed Lisovski, who was an Orthodox priest of Ruthenian origin. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Although Sultans didn't used to lawfully wed their wives, Birinci Kadins were considered and treated just like lawfully wedded wives. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. Two of her letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (reigned 15481572) have survived, and during her lifetime the Ottoman Empire generally had peaceful relations with the Polish state within a PolishOttoman alliance. Interviews of "alleged descendant" are not reliable sources for an history article, and the burden of demonstrating their reliability falls upon the editor who want to introduce them, as is written at WP:INTERVIEWS. During those decades the Venetian Republic was following the Ottoman dynastic news closely due to their close links with the empire. Reply[reply], Sort it out. In her first short letter to Sigismund II, Hurrem expresses her highest joy and congratulations to the new king on the occasion of his ascension to the Polish throne after the death of his father Sigismund I the Old in 1548. Some sources say she moved to Topkap, not because of the fire, but as a result of her marriage to Suleiman. Most other sixteenth-century Western sources on Hurrem, which are considered highly authoritative today such as Turcicae epistolae (English: The Turkish Letters) of Ogier de Busbecq, the Emissary of the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I at the Porte between 1554 and 1562; the account of the murder of ehzade Mustafa by Nicholas de Moffan; the historical chronicles on Turkey by Paolo Giovio; and the travel narrative by Luidgi Bassano derived from hearsay.. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. If Sultana cannot be used for a "Birinci Kadin" then Hatun should also not be used. It is traditionally believed that Hurrem, along with her daughter Mihrimah and her son-in-law Rustem, orchestrated Mustafas execution by turning his father, the Sultan, against him. Selim could have helped Mahidevran out of guilt that he lived and became Sultan while her son did not.  Also, in Ottoman society, mothers played more influential roles in their sons' educations and in guiding their careers. , Suleiman's mother, Hafsa Sultan, partially suppressed the rivalry between the two women. "Sultan" had many meanings throughout history and did reflect the status and the way of interacting of the times; if we want to accurately depict history then, at last, she's a "hatun".   Find a sensible answer please and then come back with your personal comments. Also, a Sultana was a woman in Sultan's family, being a mother of heir apparent living in the Harem at the same time the title Haseki was used for Hurrem, it can be asserted that she was also called Sultana, due to the fact that in her time (when Hurrem came along) Sultana title was already started being used for royal consorts regardless if they were haseki or not, see example of Mahfiruz Hatice Sultan, who was niether haseki nor Valide. The letters also suggest Hurrem's strong desire to establish personal contact with the king. After the death of Suleiman's mother Hafsa Sultan in 1534, Hurrem's influence in the palace increased, and she took over the ruling of the Harem. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why did popular culture assume, for example, that Hurrem was participant in the executions of Ibrahim Pasha and Mustafa? WebHello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. :P Well, like I said, all these efforts prove nothing but if you are convinced read may latest comments on my last reply; "you may add the word slave to Origins if you are still convinced but must also use the term "possibly" along with it to maintain a NPOV." , Hurrem's unprecedented rise from harem slave to Suleiman's legal wife and Ottoman Empress attracted jealousy and disfavor not only from her rivals in the harem, but also from the general populace. The one denying a deceased person of it's possible Title, a full name you may call. She built numerous mosques, madrasahs, hammams, and resting places for pilgrims travelling to the Islamic holy city of Makkah. 1540. Marvin died of natural causes after reportedly being hospitalized after experiencing chest pains On 13th March 2021, Marvin Hagler unexpectedly passed away in his New Hampshire home. Where she came from? Hurrem's influence in state affairs not only made her one of the most influential women, but also a controversial figure in Ottoman history, especially in her rivalry with Mahidevran and her son ehzade Mustafa, and the grand viziers Pargal Ibrahim Pasha and Kara Ahmed Pasha. Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). Dear Phso 2,I think i have made the issue clear which is about the royal woman "Mahidevran" and you shuould not have any doubt or confusion or Question regarding this subject. Does the translation really say she was from Euboea?? The use of "sultan" for a consort came with the title Haseki, because the full title was Haseki Sultan (Devletl smetlu (given name) Haseki Sultn Aliyyet'-n Hazretleri)that is why. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. ((reftalk))Reply[reply], There is no consensus to add the interview of an "alleged descendant" of Mahidevran to this article. I asked you to provide a source calling M's father Abdullah a Slave. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 15:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], We see that Birinci Kadin is what a woman who has bore a first child; you're overlooking what I said: it was Hurrem who married legally Suleyman and broke the 200 hundred tradition, not Mahidevran; in any case, she can't be called a sultana. The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. During the start of 15th century, the Ottoman dynasty was taking over the territories of its rivals more rapidly than before. Traditionally, when a new sultan rose to power, he would order all of his brothers killed in order to ensure there was no power struggle. If interviews can be cited in Wikipedia for every living or dead person, why there is so much debate in this one? Even as a consort, her power was comparable with the most powerful woman of the Imperial Harem, who by tradition was the sultan's mother or valide sultan. And what was her life like before she met Suleiman?For a long time, little was known about Mahidevran Sultan. Please stop making assumptions and accept the facts, this article needs to be changed to only Mahidevran, and all the theories and speculations, and doubted accounts can remain in an subtitle, because "doubt" and "speculation" do nothing to educate and help people.  In Istanbul, Valide Hafsa Sultan selected Hurrem as a gift for her son, Suleiman. Scholars have wondered if Hurrem's alliance with Mihrimah Sultan and Rstem Pasha helped secure the throne for one of Hurrem's sons.  However it is clear,that Mahidevran Sultan also carried the title Sultan as she was the first main chief consort (Ba Kadn). document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The leading cause of death in subjects with preserved EF was noncardiovascular disease (49%) versus coronary heart disease (43%) for subjects with reduced EF. , Hurrem became the first consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 02:43, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], "Denying a deceased person of its possible title" you just put yourself in evidence here. I was wrong I admitted that and removed the contents sourced from the blog. Learn how and when to remove this template message, CrimeanNogai slave raids in Eastern Europe, De moribus tartarorum, lituanorum et moscorum, "2 Reasons Why Hurrem Sultan and Empress Ki were similar", "Ottoman Empire History Encyclopedia - Letter H - Ottoman Turkish history with pictures - Learn Turkish", Constantinople: City of the World's Desire, 14531924, "Hrrem Sultan: A beloved wife or master manipulator? All these authors could've have used this phrase simply because they didn't know what the real father's name was, like I said "this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty." There are reasons to believe that these two letters were more than just diplomatic gestures, and that Suleiman's references to brotherly or fatherly feelings were not a mere tribute to political expediency. Raziye was born 1519, as daughter of sleyman and flane hatun. Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. She had been a servant in the household of Hanerli Fatma Sultan, daughter of ehzade Mahmud, son of Sultan Bayezid II. I do NOT understand.  Her native language was Ruthenian, the precursor to modern Ukrainian. 16th-century women. Scholars thus agree that European artists created a visual identity for Ottoman women that was largely imagined.
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